並前往https://castbox.fm/episode/%E6%AA%B8%E6%AA%AC%E8%AA%AA%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B-3-%E9%86%AB%E9%99%A2%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B---%E7%BE%8B%E7%B4%9C---%E8%A2%AB%E9%95%B7%E7%85%A7%E5%A3%93%E5%9E%AE%E7%9A%84%E5%AD%9D%E9%A0%86%E5%A5%B3%E5%AD%A9---%E8%8B%B1%E5%9C%8B%E6%8D%B2%E6%AF%9B%E8%B2%93-id2088348-id145106655