並前往https://medium.com/firstory/%E4%B8%89%E5%88%86%E9%90%98%E5%AE%8C%E6%88%90%E7%AC%AC%E4%B8%80%E5%BC%B5-podcast-%E5%B0%81%E9%9D%A2-218e3ec061a5