並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/ep44-%E4%BC%B4%E4%BE%B6%E9%97%9C%E4%BF%82%E4%B8%AD-%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E8%AE%93%E5%BD%BC%E6%AD%A4%E6%88%90%E7%82%BA%E6%9B%B4%E5%A5%BD%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%BA/id1509475610?i=1000510318166