並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/ep49-ch%E7%B3%BB%E5%88%97-%E7%95%B6%E6%B3%95%E9%AC%A5%E9%81%87%E4%B8%8A56%E8%99%9F%E9%96%98%E9%96%80-ft-ted-etc/id1527950410?i=1000525602724