並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/es/podcast/ep139-%E4%BA%A4%E6%8F%9B-%E5%90%8D%E7%82%BA%E4%BA%92%E7%9B%B8%E7%9A%84%E8%83%BD%E9%87%8F-%E6%94%BE%E9%80%81%E8%A7%80%E9%BB%9E/id1535976211?i=1000557461135&l=ca