並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/ep48-%E4%BA%AB%E5%8F%97%E7%8D%A8%E8%99%95%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%80%E7%A8%AE%E4%BA%BA%E7%94%9F%E5%A2%83%E7%95%8C-%E5%9C%8B%E9%9A%9B%E5%AD%A4%E7%8D%A8%E7%AD%89%E7%B4%9A%E9%87%8F%E8%A1%A8%E4%BD%A0%E8%83%BD%E6%89%BF%E5%8F%97%E5%88%B0%E5%93%AA%E4%B8%80%E7%B4%9A/id1500216699?i=1000510986301