並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/my/podcast/ep58-%E6%94%BE%E9%AC%86-%E6%B2%92%E6%A2%97-%E9%84%AD%E5%8D%97%E5%A5%8E%E9%80%A3%E7%BA%8C%E6%AE%BA%E7%AB%A5%E4%BA%8B%E4%BB%B6/id1559151556?i=1000559794885&l=ms