並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/my/podcast/ep83-%E5%8A%89%E9%82%A6%E5%8F%8B%E6%87%B8%E6%A1%88-%E4%B9%9D%E4%BA%BA%E7%9F%87%E7%9C%BC%E4%BA%A4%E7%96%8A%E8%AD%A6%E8%A1%9B%E5%AE%A4%E8%A1%80%E6%B5%81%E6%88%90%E6%B2%B3-%E5%85%87%E6%89%8B%E8%87%B3%E4%BB%8A%E6%88%90%E8%AC%8E/id1481974304?i=1000517613382