並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/nl/podcast/ep37-%E5%8D%81%E5%85%AB%E6%AD%B2%E9%9D%92%E5%B9%B4%E6%9E%97%E6%B8%85%E5%B2%B3%E7%82%BA%E5%8F%96%E8%B2%A1-%E5%A4%A5%E5%90%8C%E5%8F%8B%E4%BA%BA%E9%80%86%E5%80%AB%E5%BC%92%E8%A6%AA%E7%99%BE%E5%88%80/id1481974304?i=1000474075586