並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E5%90%83%E5%8F%B2ep09-%E8%A1%80%E8%85%A5%E7%91%AA%E9%BA%97%E7%9A%84%E7%94%B1%E4%BE%86%E8%B7%9F%E8%8B%B1%E5%9C%8B%E5%85%AB%E9%BB%9E%E6%AA%94%E6%9C%89%E9%97%9C/id1512632541?i=1000479728419&l=en