並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/%E5%B0%88%E8%A8%AA-39-%E5%89%B5%E6%A5%AD%E4%B8%A6%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E5%94%AF%E4%B8%80%E6%88%90%E5%8A%9F%E4%B9%8B%E9%81%93-%E6%8A%8A%E7%86%B1%E6%83%85%E7%99%BC%E6%8F%AE%E5%9C%A8%E6%9C%89%E6%AD%B8%E5%B1%AC%E6%84%9F%E7%9A%84-%E5%AE%B6-%E4%B9%9F%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%80%E7%A8%AE%E6%88%90%E5%8A%9F-%E6%9B%B4%E6%98%AF%E4%B8%80%E7%A8%AE%E5%B9%B8%E7%A6%8F-with/id1478507323?i=1000503471687