並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/138-%E5%A7%8A%E5%A7%8A%E5%80%91%E8%A6%81%E7%AD%86%E8%A8%98-%E8%82%89%E8%BA%AB%E8%B7%9F%E7%A5%A8%E5%83%B9%E7%9A%84%E6%88%B0%E7%88%AD-%E6%94%B9%E7%A5%A8%E8%A6%81%E8%B2%BB%E7%94%A8%E7%9A%84-%E9%80%B2%E9%9A%8E%E6%A9%9F%E7%A5%A8%E8%89%99%E7%AD%89%E4%BB%A3%E8%99%9F/id1504134712?i=1000555751090