並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep-13-%E9%9B%BB%E5%8B%95%E8%BB%8A%E9%82%81%E5%90%91%E8%B5%B7%E9%A3%9B%E6%9C%9F-%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E6%89%BE%E7%89%B9%E6%96%AF%E6%8B%89%E5%BE%8C%E7%9A%84%E6%98%8E%E6%97%A5%E6%98%9F/id1531443831?i=1000500741868