並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep005-%E6%97%A5%E6%96%87%E9%9B%BB%E8%85%A6%E9%9B%B6%E4%BB%B6-%E5%91%A8%E9%82%8A%E7%94%A8%E8%AA%9E-%E9%82%84%E6%9C%83%E7%94%A8%E6%97%A5%E6%96%87%E6%95%99%E5%A4%A7%E5%AE%B6%E6%80%8E%E9%BA%BC%E7%B5%84%E8%A3%9D%E9%9B%BB%E8%85%A6%E5%96%94/id1611954897?i=1000553533335