並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep662-%E5%90%B3%E6%B7%A1%E5%A6%82-%E8%AB%87%E5%A5%BD%E9%87%91%E9%8C%A2%E8%A7%80%E5%A9%9A%E5%A7%BB%E4%B8%AD%E4%B8%8D%E5%AD%A4%E5%96%AE/id1536242998?i=1000568052677