並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%E5%8F%A3%E6%A5%AD%E7%9C%9F%E5%BF%83%E8%A9%B1-10-%E6%A5%AD%E9%85%8D%E5%A5%BD%E9%9B%A3-ep53/id1502670614?i=1000486506874