並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/%E5%BB%BA%E7%AF%89%E5%AE%85%E7%94%B7-ep75-%E4%BA%BA%E7%94%9F%E4%BA%8C%E9%81%B8%E4%B8%80/id1546477051?i=1000565086405