並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep038-%E5%BE%90%E8%80%80%E6%98%8C-%E8%8B%97%E6%A0%97%E7%B8%A3%E9%95%B7-feat-%E6%9B%BE%E7%8E%9F%E5%AD%B8-%E8%8B%97%E6%A0%97%E7%B8%A3%E8%AD%B0%E5%93%A1-%E8%B6%85%E7%84%B6%E7%8D%A8%E7%AB%8B%E5%85%AC%E6%AD%A3%E7%AC%AC%E4%B8%89%E6%96%B9%E8%A6%8B%E8%AD%89%E6%9D%B1%E6%96%B9%E7%A5%9E%E7%A7%98%E5%8A%9B%E9%87%8F/id1532861320?i=1000532995190