並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep11-%E8%81%8A%E8%81%8A%E7%8D%B8%E9%86%AB%E5%8A%A9%E7%90%86%E7%9A%84%E5%B7%A5%E4%BD%9C-%E7%8D%B8%E9%86%AB%E5%8A%A9%E7%90%86-%E5%BB%96%E6%B2%9B%E6%81%A9/id1515687754?i=1000553395803