並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep213-%E4%BD%A0%E4%B8%8D%E5%BF%85%E5%9B%A0%E7%82%BA%E5%AB%89%E5%A6%92%E5%88%A5%E4%BA%BA%E8%80%8C%E6%84%9F%E5%88%B0%E7%BE%9E%E6%84%A7-%E8%AB%87%E8%AB%87%E7%BE%A8%E6%85%95%E8%88%87%E5%AB%89%E5%A6%92%E7%9A%84%E5%B7%AE%E5%88%A5/id1452688611?i=1000545443644