並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep40-%E4%B8%80%E8%B5%B7%E6%8B%8D%E7%89%87%E4%B8%80%E8%B5%B7%E7%B6%93%E7%87%9F%E9%9B%BB%E5%95%86-%E5%A7%90%E5%A6%B9%E4%B8%8D%E5%90%B5%E6%9E%B6%E7%9A%84%E5%A5%BD%E6%84%9F%E6%83%85%E7%A7%98%E8%A8%A3-ft-%E6%AC%B8%E4%BD%A0%E9%80%99%E9%80%B1%E8%A6%81%E5%B9%B9%E5%98%9B/id1482088693?i=1000488347328