並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep5-%E5%8F%8B%E9%81%94%E4%BA%BA%E6%80%9D%E5%BF%B5%E5%9C%B0%E5%9C%96-%E6%87%B7%E5%BF%B5%E7%9A%84%E5%AE%B6%E6%97%8F%E6%97%85%E8%A1%8C-%E7%B5%A6%E9%98%BF%E5%AC%A4%E7%9A%84%E6%AD%8C%E8%87%AA%E5%B7%B1%E5%94%B1/id1577678737?i=1000532996603