並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep52-%E8%81%B7%E5%A0%B4%E8%A1%8C%E4%B8%8D%E8%A1%8C-%E5%B0%88%E8%A8%AA%E9%9D%92%E5%B9%B4%E8%81%B7%E6%B6%AF%E6%95%99%E7%B7%B4%E4%BD%95%E5%89%87%E6%96%87-%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E6%89%BE%E5%88%B0%E5%96%9C%E6%AD%A1%E5%81%9A%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%8B-%E9%81%A9%E5%90%88%E7%9A%84%E5%B7%A5%E4%BD%9C-%E5%B7%A5%E4%BD%9C%E7%9A%84%E6%84%8F%E7%BE%A9%E6%98%AF%E4%BB%80%E9%BA%BC-%E7%B5%A6%E5%B7%A5%E4%BD%9C%E8%80%85%E7%9A%84%E8%81%B7%E6%B6%AF%E8%A6%8F%E7%95%AB%E5%BB%BA%E8%AD%B0/id1591157883?i=1000557862535