並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep53-%E8%B7%9F%E5%8F%B2%E8%A9%A9%E4%B8%80%E6%A8%A3%E5%81%89%E5%A4%A7%E7%9A%84%E5%88%9D%E6%88%80-%E5%88%BB%E5%9C%A8%E4%BD%A0%E5%BF%83%E5%BA%95%E7%9A%84%E5%90%8D%E5%AD%97-%E5%B0%8F%E8%AA%AA%E8%88%87%E9%9B%BB%E5%BD%B1%E5%B7%AE%E7%95%B0-%E6%B0%B4%E5%B0%A2%E9%8C%90%E5%BF%83%E5%88%BA%E9%AA%A8%E7%9A%84%E5%88%9D%E6%88%80/id1519378369?i=1000494903882