並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep60-%E7%82%BA%E4%BA%86%E5%A0%85%E6%8C%81%E5%96%9C%E6%AD%A1%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%8B%E6%83%85%E8%80%8C%E9%96%8B%E5%A7%8B%E6%8E%A5%E6%A1%88-%E8%BB%9F%E8%A3%9D%E8%A8%AD%E8%A8%88%E5%B8%AB-alice-hoqua-%E8%BB%9F%E8%A3%9D%E8%A8%AD%E8%A8%88/id1472932956?i=1000515710426