並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep64-%E7%B6%B2%E7%B4%85%E7%B6%93%E6%BF%9F%E5%B4%9B%E8%B5%B7-%E5%93%81%E7%89%8C%E5%A6%82%E4%BD%95%E8%88%87%E7%B6%B2%E7%B4%85%E5%90%88%E4%BD%9C%E6%8F%90%E5%8D%87%E8%A1%8C%E9%8A%B7%E6%95%88%E7%9B%8A/id1510723809?i=1000529948712&itsct=podcast_box_link&itscg=30200&ls=1