並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep78-%E5%81%A5%E5%BF%83%E5%AE%A4-%E6%B4%BB%E5%87%BA%E4%BD%A0%E7%9A%84%E5%8E%9F%E5%BB%A0%E8%A8%AD%E5%AE%9A-%E4%B8%8D%E9%9C%80%E8%B2%BB%E5%8A%9B%E8%BF%BD%E6%B1%82%E6%9B%B4%E5%AE%8C%E7%BE%8E%E7%9A%84%E8%87%AA%E5%B7%B1-%E8%80%8C%E6%98%AF%E6%89%BE%E5%9B%9E-%E5%AE%8C%E6%95%B4-%E7%9A%84%E8%87%AA%E5%B7%B1-%E8%98%87%E4%BA%88%E6%98%95%E5%BF%83%E7%90%86%E5%B8%AB/id1488290503?i=1000521942724