並前往https://www.audacy.com/podcast/%E5%A4%9A%E5%81%9A%E8%AE%93%E4%BA%BA%E7%94%9F%E7%BE%8E%E5%A5%BD%E7%9A%84%E4%BA%8B-981d4/episodes/ep23-%E7%94%9F%E6%B4%BB%E7%B4%80%E4%BA%8B35-%E8%BB%8A%E7%A6%8D-312-%E5%87%BA%E9%99%A2-d2529