並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%90%B3%E6%B7%A1%E5%A6%82%E4%BA%BA%E7%94%9F%E5%AF%A6%E7%94%A8%E5%95%86%E5%AD%B8%E9%99%A2/ep389%E5%90%B3%E6%B7%A1%E5%A6%82x%E6%B1%9F%E6%B9%96%E4%BA%BA%E7%A8%B1s%E5%A7%90x-Q6ngG1dJS_8/