並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E6%97%85%E4%BA%BA%E5%90%8C%E8%A1%8C/ep09-%E5%B7%B4%E8%A5%BF%E5%B8%A5%E5%93%A5%E8%AC%9B%E5%8F%B0%E8%AA%9E%E6%9C%83%E4%B8%AD%E9%86%AB%E4%BD%A0%E6%95%A2%E7%9B%B8%E4%BF%A1%E5%97%8Ex-PKDkE2p9jAx/