並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E6%97%A9%E5%AE%89%E8%82%89%E6%B3%A5-%E6%9C%A8%E6%9C%A8%E5%AE%89%E8%82%89%E4%B8%80-q0I7_YyncMk/