並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%81%BD%E6%96%B0%E8%81%9E%E5%AD%B8%E8%8B%B1%E6%96%87/ep193-if-%E5%81%87%E8%A8%AD%E8%AA%9E%E6%B0%A3%E7%B8%BD%E6%98%AF%E9%8C%AF-%E8%B7%9F%E8%B3%93%E7%8B%97%E5%AD%B8%E6%96%87%E6%B3%95-%E8%A9%A6%E8%81%BD%E9%9B%86-CSEW5nh2GXz/