並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%83%A1%E4%B9%83%E6%96%87%E9%96%8B%E8%AC%9B-%E8%83%A1%E4%B9%83%E6%96%87%E9%96%8B%E8%AC%9B-AhTE_KLXx6c/