並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E8%A1%8C%E5%8B%95%E6%98%9F%E7%90%83/%E8%A1%8C%E5%8B%95%E6%98%9F%E7%90%83%E4%B8%80%E5%B0%8F%E5%BE%90%E8%AA%AA%E8%AA%AA%E8%A9%B1-ep79-3-9oEYryB2Z/