並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E9%86%AB%E5%B8%AB%E5%A5%BD%E8%BE%A3/%E5%A5%B3%E9%86%AB%E5%B8%ABpo%E7%81%AB%E8%BE%A3%E6%AF%94%E5%9F%BA%E5%B0%BC%E7%85%A7%E9%81%AD%E5%89%8D%E8%BC%A9%E6%8F%90%E9%86%92%E8%A1%A3%E6%9C%8D%E5%A4%9A%E7%A9%BF%E4%B8%80%E9%BB%9E%E9%86%AB%E5%B8%AB%E5%A5%BD%E8%BE%A32021-fs70i6JDYtA/