並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/pon%E5%B7%A7%E9%81%87%E8%A6%8B%E4%BD%A0/%E7%AC%AC%E5%9B%9B%E9%9B%86-%E7%9C%9F%E7%9C%9F%E4%B8%8B%E6%96%B0%E5%9C%8B%E9%9A%9B%E5%AD%A4%E7%8D%A8%E7%AD%89%E7%B4%9A%E8%A1%A8-b6Oyr1sFcPZ/